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Logical proof of god´s existence... I don´t think so.

While I won´t claim to be a Ph D. in math­e­mat­ic­s, and not event a self pro­claimed Pla­ton­ist Philoso­pher as Dr. Hatch­er

But I know what´s wrong with his proof.

While it does­n´t fall in­to the in­fi­nite re­gress, it falls in­to some­thing sim­i­lar.

Since the uni­verse is a com­pos­ite and can not be the cause of its com­po­nents, there must be an ex­ter­nal cause... ok.

By def­i­ni­tion, if there is the uni­verse and Dr. Hatcher´s G el­e­men­t, then there is a sec­ond metau­ni­verse, con­tain­ing G and our uni­verse.

In that metau­ni­verse, G can not be cre­at­ed by the metau­ni­verse, since it´s a com­po­nent of it. So there must be a G´ which cre­at­ed G.

If we de­cide, as he did, that G is self­-cre­at­ed in­stead, why can´t ev­ery quark be self­-cre­at­ed?

Why can´t there be just a dozen quark­s, mov­ing through time, and we see him many times be­cause he crossed our po­si­tion in time many times?

Are you will­ing to have a quark as your god? :-)

Roberto Alsina / 2006-04-03 06:12:

Well, I am an evil elitist myself, and I find it hard to blame Plato for what happened 2300 years after he died ;-)

As for Plato despising reality... well, think about it. No internet access, no soap, no hamburgers. Really despicable reality!

A.R.Yngve / 2006-04-03 06:12:

The real issue, I propose, is not whether the Common Prayer should be rewritten "Our quarks, who art in sub-space, hallowed be thy spin..."


The real issue is that our "vision" of G has evolved. God wasn't ALWAYS this abstract, omnipotent force. Pagan gods were often quite limited in power; humans could affect them with prayer and sacrifice (sometimes of human blood, yuck!).

But around the time the concept of the One All-Powerful God came around, he became more abstract. And as mankind learned that the cosmos was always BIGGER than we'd imagined - perhaps even infinite - God became infinitely remote and abstract. The "humanoid" component of G faded out.

Let's say that we prove the existence of G. Will this mean a revival of religion everywhere? I don't think so. Because this G will be utterly removed from us, that we wouldn't praying to "it". We'd know better... G can create universes, so why would G care about incense and prayer on one tiny planet among many?

I'm not saying this is the way it IS... but quarks don't have the emotional pull of a man on a cross. It's awfully hard to gather people around an elementary particle. :)

As for Dr. Hatcher... I'll just say this: Platonism gave birth to Romanticism, which gave birth to Fascism. Plato despises reality. Plato is an evil elitist. :(

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